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Don, whether one believes (1) that salvation, though unmerited, can be lost through a sin-controlled life or (2) that only the person who lives in conformity to the Spirit is truly saved and can never lose salvation does not determine whether one is in or out of the faith, and thus should not be identified as a defining indicator of a denomination's health.

Robert A. J. Gagnon Scripture implores the believers to come out in Separation from unbelievers because light has no fellowship with dark and Christ has none with Belial - II Corinthians 6:14-18
I think it's perfectly fine for those who believe the Scriptures to do the separation.

So we should refer to them as the Divided Methodist Church? This has been a long time coming!!!

Sounds healthy to me. The remaining Methodist Christians have a clear path to escaping the bad influence of Jesus' post-Christian enemies. As a cradle Methodist, I saw this coming back in the sixties.

The UMC is allowing culture to define Scripture, rather than allowing Scripture to shape culture.

Since the modern liberal Methodists do not share the understanding of God’s Word as held by John and Charles Wesley, Asbury, and Strawbridge, they should not continue to use the term ‘Methodist’ in their new religious body.

We must pray for leaders who are committed to the Word of God to stand strong against Satan's attack on the United Methodist Church. The Bible is clear in Romans Chapter 1 - homosexuality is a sin. Just as Christians stand for righteousness on other issues, we must all stand up for biblical marriage between a man and a woman. May the Methodists never yield to the attack on their church by militant LGBTQ activists and those who pervert the Word of God.

The Book of Jude urges Christians to earnestly contend for the faith - this is exactly what the Church must do today.

Jude Living Bible (TLB)
1 From: Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ, and a brother of James.

To: Christians everywhere—beloved of God and chosen by him. 2 May you be given more and more of God’s kindness, peace, and love.

3 Dearly loved friends, I had been planning to write you some thoughts about the salvation God has given us, but now I find I must write of something else instead, urging you to stoutly defend the truth that God gave once for all to his people to keep without change through the years. 4 I say this because some godless teachers have wormed their way in among you, saying that after we become Christians we can do just as we like without fear of God’s punishment. The fate of such people was written long ago, for they have turned against our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 My answer to them is: Remember this fact—which you know already—that the Lord saved a whole nation of people out of the land of Egypt and then killed every one of them who did not trust and obey him. 6 And I remind you of those angels who were once pure and holy but turned to a life of sin.[a] Now God has them chained up in prisons of darkness, waiting for the judgment day. 7 And don’t forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, all full of lust of every kind, including lust of men for other men. Those cities were destroyed by fire and continue to be a warning to us that there is a hell in which sinners are punished.

8 Yet these false teachers carelessly go right on living their evil, immoral lives, degrading their bodies and laughing at those in authority over them, even scoffing at the Glorious Ones. 9 Yet Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, when he was arguing with Satan about Moses’ body, did not dare to accuse even Satan, or jeer at him, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But these men mock and curse at anything they do not understand, and like animals, they do whatever they feel like, thereby ruining their souls.

11 Woe upon them! For they follow the example of Cain who killed his brother; and like Balaam, they will do anything for money; and like Korah, they have disobeyed God and will die under his curse.

12 When these men join you at the love feasts of the church, they are evil smears among you, laughing and carrying on, gorging and stuffing themselves without a thought for others. They are like clouds blowing over dry land without giving rain, promising much, but producing nothing. They are like fruit trees without any fruit at picking time. They are not only dead, but doubly dead, for they have been pulled out, roots and all, to be burned.

13 All they leave behind them is shame and disgrace like the dirty foam left along the beach by the wild waves. They wander around looking as bright as stars, but ahead of them is the everlasting gloom and darkness that God has prepared for them.

14 Enoch, who lived seven generations after Adam, knew about these men and said this about them: “See, the Lord is coming with millions of his holy ones. 15 He will bring the people of the world before him in judgment, to receive just punishment and to prove the terrible things they have done in rebellion against God, revealing all they have said against him.” 16 These men are constant gripers, never satisfied, doing whatever evil they feel like; they are loudmouthed “show-offs,” and when they show respect for others, it is only to get something from them in return.

17 Dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ told you, 18 that in the last times there would come these scoffers whose whole purpose in life is to enjoy themselves in every evil way imaginable. 19 They stir up arguments; they love the evil things of the world; they do not have the Holy Spirit living in them.

20 But you, dear friends, must build up your lives ever more strongly upon the foundation of our holy faith, learning to pray in the power and strength of the Holy Spirit.

21 Stay always within the boundaries where God’s love can reach and bless you. Wait patiently for the eternal life that our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy is going to give you. 22 Try to help those who argue against you. Be merciful to those who doubt. 23 Save some by snatching them as from the very flames of hell itself. And as for others, help them to find the Lord by being kind to them, but be careful that you yourselves aren’t pulled along into their sins. Hate every trace of their sin while being merciful to them as sinners.

24-25 And now—all glory to him who alone is God, who saves us through Jesus Christ our Lord; yes, splendor and majesty, all power and authority are his from the beginning; his they are and his they evermore shall be. And he is able to keep you from slipping and falling away, and to bring you, sinless and perfect, into his glorious presence with mighty shouts of everlasting joy. Amen.

Let’s see...Hmmm. We have those on the right who are striving to obey God’s holy word and we have those on the left who follow after the world (dictates of their evil hearts). See Mathew 7:21

FYI: This post was quoted in: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-united-methodist-church-officially-splits-over-gay-marriage-clergy
(9 mins ago). Good quote!

On first read the Protocol looked good to me. If only the PCUSA were so fair minded.

As B. B. Warfield once said, you can't split a rotten log.

I agree. Especially since the Methodists have a world-wide "communion," the vast majority of whom are orthodox in belief on this issue. I'm still trying to figure out how this split is supposed to work. [My kids are both worshiping in UMC churches in Seattle, so the topic was hot at our holiday table.]

Doesn't 2 Cor 6:14-17 suggest that it's the faithful who should leave?

Seems to me that a politically savvy and politically obsessed minority has skunked the biblically faithful and reluctantly political majority. Did it mean that the conservative churches that soldier on in the new domination will lose their properties to the biblically unfaithful? That's attrocious, if so! Then keep the denomination together and let the progressives lose battle after battle until they quit the denomination they have already quit in theology and morality. Progressives will be outvoted from now on, so they don't have any platform from which to leverage demands. Why give them the farm?

Dr. G., I'm a 30 year UMC clergy. Frankly, I think this is the best we'll get. But it's anybody's guess what the final thing will be when it finally gets to a vote. IMHO.

I hope the traditional church survives.

Local KC area pastor who is "progressive" stated in an interview that the opinion is that the churches in Africa would remain because of their ability to remain locally as they are (to not give up their right to not do same sex marriages). I am not sure why he thinks that and said it on television, but he did (if I understood him correctly). I wonder if it's the loss of buildings that concerns the churches in Africa? Seems odd.

Haha. Maybe the traditionalists can call themselves Evangelical United Brethren!

The Methodist traditionalists have been putting up with so much heresy and misspent funds for so many years, I wouldn't expect them to put up a fight now. They are as weak as they have always been.

I applaud their conscience, but the deal in terms of monies and property looks worse than the Paris and Iran deal. Twenty-five million is next to nothing when compared to properties, and why (as Robert said above) are the traditionalists leaving? Why not the other way around?

Dr. Gagnon, the media are downplaying that this is merely a proposal from a body with questionable authority. The recommendation that conservatives leave the main body is a DOA proposal to liberal bishops/delegates. What they want is for me to affirm their heresy; that cannot happen if we are not I’m communion. It’s fascinating that this proposal is getting so much attention because it will certainly fail, even if it makes it to the floor of the May General Conference for an up or down vote. If the Feb ‘19 special GC told us anything, it told us that the liberal minority will not go away quietly and will not respect UMC polity.

As bad as it sounds, it's a better option than we got.

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”

1 John 2:19

Agree. I wish all the liberal/modernist Catholics would just join the Episcopal Church, as a practical matter they are Anglicans.

I think what the "progressive" Methodists are saying is that they've had enough of the uppity Africans and want to leave. 😉

What many here seem to miss is that it is easier to steal a church than to start one. Discernment is essential for the Body Of Christ. Many posters are gentle as doves while missing the whole, “..wise as serpents..” part of the imperative.

This is probably the best plan to save the Methodist Church. I was suggesting the same concept -- Gracious Separation -- for the PCUSA 15 years ago. It was rejected by both the establishment and the renewalists. Both thought they could find common ground. Both were wrong.

- Let us ask the question, are we to uphold the faith or not according to the Bible?

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV) In other words, Christ did not come so we can live freely in sin, but freely apart from sin.

Nowhere in the Bible is there Scripture that legitimizes homosexuality. Whenever the Bible speaks of “homosexuality” it condemns it (Genesis 19:4-9; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:24-27, I Corinthians 6:9-10; and Timothy 1:9-10); in contrast the Bible consistently treats “heterosexuality” as normative (1 Corinthians 7; Ephesians 5; 1 Peter 3; et al).

Even if we were not to mention Scripture, homosexuality is biologically and logically flawed. When one has to change the natural use of the human body to achieve pleasure, then it is perverted.

When the so-called “progressive” churches question the historicity of Jesus, deny the reality of sin such as homosexuality – as well as support abortion, ordain clergy in same-sex relationships and perform their marriages – people desiring real Christianity head elsewhere.

As such the so-called church which supports the gay agenda of acceptance towards homosexuality and the thinking process “if sodomy is not bad—and we must not say it is—then it must be good and what is good must be praised, supported, and even encouraged,” is not thinking or acting in accordance to God’s Word.

Back to the question.

Let us divide and in 50 yrs see which group God has blessed.